02:22:15 – 02:41:07 (the end)
Happiness is permanent, it cannot be temporary
Anna: And may I also… People just have such a question, and I often heard from people, and… There is such a substitution in consciousness that happiness cannot be permanent. Meaning that happiness is just some moments. You can hear this in particular from older people. They say, ”Yes, there is happiness, but it’s just some moments, outbursts…”
Igor Mikhailovich: The dead are saying this, pardon me.
Anna: But how can a person…
Igor Mikhailovich: Happiness cannot be temporary. I’m saying once again: Love cannot be temporary, freedom cannot be temporary. These are the components of one process which is called life, right? Life must be Eternal. Life cannot be temporary.
This is… Once I gave this example already, but I’ll repeat. People say, “Doctor, thank you, you saved me.” How did I save you? You were ill, and I healed you, right? Firstly, did I heal you? I gave you a pill or I gave you an injection. After that it’s not my problem already how chemistry worked, meaning, your body…
“I saved you.” What did I save you from? Does it mean that you won’t die? This is a simple question. Well, not today, right, today you won’t die. But you’ll die tomorrow, I’ve not saved you, after all. In fact, a person must save himself. You see? This cannot be temporary.
This emotion when they have achieved something, when they have received something, people call happiness. Well, you were walking and found two dollars lying on the ground. Such a happiness?! You see, such an emotional outburst – you found two dollars. Well… after a while you got upset because you had found so little.
Why people enjoy grieving and self-torture?
Zhanna: This also happens because of… Well, consciousness says, “Don’t prevent me from grieving, why will I…”
Igor Mikhailovich: Yeah-yeah…
Zhanna: Well, what does it mean to be happy? To be happy is precisely…
Igor Mikhailovich: To be happy is foolishness, while pleasure is grief, right? (
Zhanna: Right, here such a stupid thing occurred…) Self-torture – for example, here I am, yes.
Zhanna: Yes. These are very common situations when people…
Igor Mikhailovich: And many talk about this.
Zhanna: Yes, many people talk about this.
Igor Mikhailovich: Well, this is again like that very wailing near the wall, which we analysed in the previous programme.
Igor Mikhailovich: It’s that oppression which consciousness imposes on people, and people live by this. Well, if they live by this, if they like it, this self-torment, this masochism, so, who’s enjoying it in a person? The system is enjoying. And it is happy, because it seizes your attention completely.
Because from you, pardon me, a fool, from a potentially Alive it is making an inevitably dead; because it creates the future for itself, you see?
After all, it will live after your physical death (of your body), right? Consciousness will exist as a program and again parasitize on your Personality. Well, of course, for it, for this program it is very convenient, and it does everything in order to make it happen.
But why does a person submit to this? And why does a person, say, as a Personality… After all, he does feel that something is wrong, and understands that it shouldn’t be so (Zh: He does feel), but keeps doing it. Well, here, of course, it’s…
Tatiana: After all, very many people… There’s even a common situation when they just wake up in the morning, see their totally lifeless look, and don’t understand what all this for, why they, for instance, go somewhere. That is, kind of complete, well…
Igor Mikhailovich: …indifference to life.
Tatiana: Indifference to life.
Igor Mikhailovich: …some kind of apathy.
Tatiana: …and they don’t understand what all this is for.
Igor Mikhailovich: It’s also interesting when they start trying to get even with life, as they say, right? That is, we are touching upon suicides. “Well, since life is so vile, then why do I need it?” As if they are going to feel better afterwards — well, this is total nonsense.
Spiritually free person is a threat to the system
Tatiana: This is the key point that every person, having asked oneself such a question, precisely feels that… Well, like…
Igor Mikhailovich: This is not a solution to the problem.
Tatiana: …and feels that he is capable of and needed here for a lot more. And even in childhood, everyone of us understood and felt that adults were fussing and sort of making themselves busy with some foolishness, “Don’t do this. Don’t do that.” After all, well…
Igor Mikhailovich: Well, now you are touching upon a very interesting point that indeed very many people are actually capable of quite a lot.
In fact, certain situations develop, and if a person, let’s say, doesn’t go to the right under the dictation of the system, but turns left instead, I’m just giving an example, then he might gain, let’s say, that understanding which would make him free.
And, having become at least a little bit free, he can serve the Spiritual World here, in this three-dimensionality, and give immense freedom to other people, you see?
Whereas the system, feeling and understanding these little steps or feeling the power of his Personality, is immediately trying to load him. Feeling his inner potential, it imposes on him a lot more pressure than on the other one, and the person burns himself out, while continuing to feel throughout his life that he can throw this load off.
Well, it’s actually an illusory load. Nonetheless, often these people get broken, become alcoholics, drug addicts, suicides, and the like. But once they were potentially spiritually strong, that is, had a greater degree of freedom. Well, this is…
Zhanna: Meaning, if a person at that moment made the right choice, precisely listened to his feelings, this could lead to global positive consequences?
Igor Mikhailovich: Well, not quite global, but, let’s say, (Zh: Well, at least…) he would cause significant damage to the system.
Zhanna: Right, at least damage…
Igor Mikhailovich: He would inflict damage, you see?
Zhanna: Yes, yes.
Igor Mikhailovich: And I’ll put it simply, the system perceives such people as a virus for its flock, you see? Just like a farmer reacts to a virus at a neighboring farm, right, that animals there have fallen ill – aha, and he immediately deliberately quarantines them.
Well, in order for another flock not to get ill, it’s better to block the potential threat as much as possible. And when people embark on the spiritual path and begin to study all these processes carefully, to approach this seriously, when they begin to work on, let’s say, opposing the system itself within themselves, what do they face? They face aggression from the system itself.
And quite often, if a person approaches the attainment of Life mindlessly, then the system breaks him. Why?
Zhanna: It takes revenge.
Igor Mikhailovich: It takes revenge, right.
Zhanna: And immediately. He has barely felt something good, when…
Igor Mikhailovich: But this, on the contrary, is good. And when a person approaches this process with due knowledge, he understands that if aggression has started from the system, it means that this is good.
Zhanna: It means he’s doing the right thing.
Igor Mikhailovich: Certainly. These are like signs on the road that indicate: you are following the right path, fellow, strengthen your walk.
How to be in a dynamic spiritual practice?
Tatiana: People also think that in order to unite with God one must constantly remain in spiritual practice. Therefore, naturally, there is no time.
Igor Mikhailovich: Well… what people put into the concept of spiritual practice – this should continue from birth to death of the physical body. It’s an ongoing process. It is also called dynamic meditation, and the like. There must be a permanent contact. This spiritual practice should always go on, that’s in human understanding.
If you at least slightly lose this joy, Love, well, it means that the system will command you.
Immediately consciousness has attacked you, brought you into a maze and confused you, hasn’t it?
Tatiana: Meaning, the fact that the dynamic practice doesn’t work at once, as consciousness tells you…
Igor Mikhailovich: Well, of course, not at once. It can’t be at once. But consciousness immediately begins to oppress, “You see, you are not succeeding. It means you are nothing and no one, and it won’t work out. Either the practice is wrong, or you are wrong.” And here one of the two is guilty: either Mister Geppetto or Pinocchio, right?
In fact, neither Mister Geppetto nor Pinocchio have anything to do with the circus in your head, it belongs to you alone. And you just need to work harder. To work indeed. If you work honestly, everything will work out. You do feel, don’t you? Yes, you do. What else do you need, right? Simply develop this.
Most importantly, remove doubts, don’t listen to consciousness. It tells you, “It’s bad, you won’t succeed”, and you say, “Why won’t I succeed if you are already outraged, right?”
Well, even if we approach this logically. Since consciousness opposes, this means you are already gaining strength. If it criticizes you, then you’ve already gained something. Well, isn’t that so? Well, it is. Therefore, it’s necessary to practice, it’s necessary to understand.
Common questions about spiritual development
Zhanna: Is there anything at all that can prevent a human being from being free, well, I mean, really?
Igor Mikhailovich: Yes, there is. In actual fact, the state of subpersonality totally eliminates spiritual development while Personality remains active, with active self-awareness. It is death. Well, it’s what people understand by this notion. It’s the only thing that can hinder.
But for as long as a person lives here, and while by all laws he possesses the right to distribute the power of attention, he really can. He can get liberated, can start Living. There’s nothing else, no prohibition, nothing else. Nobody can hinder him.
Tatiana: When a person is working on himself for a long time and believes consciousness which says that he has no results, then…
Igor Mikhailovich: This means he’s not working on himself. You see, there are also mutually exclusive points here. That is, you are saying, “A person is working on himself for a long time and believes consciousness which tells him…” Pardon me, what is he doing, while working on himself? He precisely agrees with his consciousness, and is he engaging in self-torture or in spiritual development? Here’s a simple question, “What is he engaging in?” He’s engaging in masochism. He’s not engaging in spiritual development.
After all, the spiritual path is very easy, it is pleasant, it is joyful. The first thing you start generating is joy and Love. While residing in joy and Love, how can you listen to anybody saying that you don’t manage? Don’t manage what? Don’t manage to love? Who doesn’t manage to love?
Tatiana: People mostly have fear that they won’t have time to get saved.
Igor Mikhailovich: It is the system having fear that it won’t be able to get saved if you evolve spiritually. It must impose this, but why should you listen to it? And how can a person who has stepped on the spiritual path have either fear, or anxiety, or hatred? Or doubts? All these are the processes of consciousness, there should be a clear differentiation here.
And, generally speaking, any thought which is imposed and is coming – after all, it’s not perception through feelings, it’s conscious perception in the form of a transmitted thought, right? It’s already 100% doubtful. Because it is coming from whom? From consciousness.
How to understand that consciousness is just a program
Igor Mikhailovich: What is consciousness? It’s a program. Not just a little program, but a part of an entire huge program. Understanding, knowing all this…
And it’s very easy to learn and to find confirmations: just take a notebook and write everything down. We’ve already talked about it a thousand times. And anyone, even, excuse me, the most inveterate sceptic or super-atheist, I don’t know what else to call him.
Just any person who doubts everything, with the activeness of consciousness, but who has a real interest and thirst for knowledge, he can experiment, and he will get convinced that consciousness is not his. We’ve told about this many times, and we’ve told how to do this.
And he will reach understanding that it’s a program which dominates and substitutes, it creates an illusion of life. That’s how it functions. But having studied and knowing all this, he will begin to understand that if such thought has come, this means something awaits him round that turn, if this thing has been palmed off – that thing will take place. After all, it always throws signs in.
And it’s preparing you, “If you turn there – a brick will fall on your head, if you turn there – something better will happen.” And a person already starts choosing consciously whether to go there or not, or to just sit. It cannot be otherwise.
Only when we surrender, we lose. While we surrender only when we lose the power of our attention, we surrender only when we are weak, right. Meaning, when the animal is strong while we are weak. And it’s easier for us to surrender, to give everything up than to defend our position, it’s easier to die. But you won’t die in fact, if…
You see, the whole trouble is that consciousness deceives people. It seems to them that death is salvation. Whereas death is precisely the beginning of torments. That’s the point.
If people knew, like I say, if they could experience the state of subpersonality for at least an instant, they would become saints very fast, very fast, and all of them, beginning with inveterate atheists. As Bereke (Baraka) once said, “Even priests, clergymen would become saints.” This is true.
Tatiana: Meaning, it is that moment when basically fear and understanding of what will be there beyond the verge when you’ll become a subpersonality, it basically stimulates and motivates a person to move spiritually.
What is the major impetus which forces a person to strive for spiritual development
Tatiana: But can a strong feeling of the Spiritual World become an impetus in order to…
Igor Mikhailovich: Consciousness cannot, no. Why? Because consciousness will substitute, distort everything and say that this didn’t happen. Consciousness will say and doubt that you have felt this at all. After all, in fact so many times people encounter the spiritual power which, well, let’s say, for any alive one can give such a…
Well, like additional forces, after all, it’s additional Love, joy, well, how can… Well, it’s impossible to encounter this power and not to notice it. Whereas the majority doesn’t notice at all. Or, on the contrary, consciousness begins to attack negatively and actively, right?
Why? Just in order to suppress a Personality that can even potentially feel it. And it imposes negativity so that the Personality wouldn’t even move. That’s also the point. But even if, possessing no experience, a person has got a surge (yes, it may be some goal to be aimed at in the future), but consciousness will surely cast doubt on this.
Only this inner feeling, the feeling of craving for Home, an aspiration for this, for Love, an understanding that you’re not just an animal – it is precisely this major impetus which forces a person to strive for spiritual development and gaining Life.
While a one-time surge – well, for potentially alive ones it is helpful, but for those whose consciousness is too strong this understanding will quickly get erased. Unfortunately, that’s how the system works. Although… We can verify experimentally.
Tatiana: Let’s do it.
Igor Mikhailovich: Well, what do you mean “Let’s do it”? People won’t understand.
Tatiana: But there are those who will feel and those for whom it’s indeed important and necessary, those people who will respond. And for them it will be a great help. And just like you said, “One person can just raise and inspire millions of people.”
Igor Mikhailovich: Says, we are sharing what’s ours – just so they’ll understand.
Well, and for those who, on the contrary, get activated by consciousness, well, it’s their choice: to choose the bad or to force consciousness to bring in a good perception after all.
For some reason everyone thinks that they need to close their eyes, just like Tatiana, right?
Tatiana: Tatiana is simply hiding the tears of joy.
The right approach to spiritual development is to be the source
Igor Mikhailovich: That they need to put hands together, to whisper something, or anything else. But actually, guys, it doesn’t matter what your body is doing. Spiritual Love does not depend on the material body. And Personality can behave exactly, as we’ve already said, absolutely freely and independently of what consciousness is doing according to its orders at the moment.
And these spiritual outbursts, let’s say, of spiritual Love, which a digital camera can indeed transmit, they don’t come from the physical body. But when such a big, let’s say, how to express it… When there is too much heat emanating from the Sun, yes, in the material sense, it can be felt even at the physical level. Well, basically, it’s indeed felt. Then even consciousness hesitates a bit. Well…
How long will it last for people? You see? I’ll put it simpler. One can, of course, feed the hungry, but he will quench his thirst only for the moment. It’s better to give him an opportunity not to be hungry, not to experience hunger, but to be full all the time. Well, that’s right.
But in this case, a person himself should strive not only to quench his thirst or hunger, but to be himself a source of food and moisture, let’s say, for those who are experiencing this thirst. This is the right approach to spiritual development and to service. But it’s only for those who truly take the path of service.
While for those people who want to at least come into contact with the Spiritual World, to at least free themselves a little, they should simply choose Happiness, choose Love and live by it – by Love and Happiness. It’s simple.
Zhanna: This help is invaluable. It’s for those who…
Igor Mikhailovich: It’s valuable for potentially Alive ones.
Zhanna: Yes, it’s very helpful. And those people who are feeling this impulse now, after all, they are truly happy, they can truly understand what Life is.
Igor Mikhailovich: And you know what’s joyful? It’s really joyful that there are a lot of such people. Thank you, guys. We are always with you when you don’t reject us.
All the best!